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Truth vs Lies | Grey Zone Ep 2

The Wargame

Russia knows our weaknesses. But do you?   

A major five-part series from Sky News and Tortoise which imagines how a Russian attack on the UK could play out – and invites real-life former ministers, military chiefs and other experts to figure out how to defend the country.   

Written and presented by Sky News' security and defence editor, Deborah Haynes.

This is Deborah's second podcast series for Sky News. In her first series, Into The Grey Zone, Deborah explores the murky evolution of warfare.

What do assassinations, cyber hacks and disinformation have in common? They're all weapons used by states against each other in a grey zone of harm under the threshold of war, but could be just as dangerous if ignored.

This episode explores a battle between truth and lies that’s threatening democracies around the world. It looks at how information is used as a weapon, not just by hostile foreign states, seeking to divide and weaken rival nations, but also by domestic politicians and other actors. Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes speaks to the author of a book on the history of disinformation, Professor Thomas Rid, who talks about fake news during the Cold War and warns about the risk of political violence today when people can no longer agree on facts. It’s a warning that played out on the streets of Washington DC in January when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building, spurred on by a false belief that Joe Biden had stolen his way to victory in the 2020 presidential election. Deborah also visits one of the UK’s best-known fighters of suspected Russian and Chinese fake news, who battles online trolls from his remote cottage in Scotland. And if you think that sounds strange, remember, in the grey zone, the frontline is everywhere! Interviews: Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Active Measures – the secret history of disinformation and political warfare Linas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Lithuania until December 2020 Keir Giles, author of a handbook on Russian information warfare for NATO, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House Daniel Jones, founder and president of Advance Democracy Ben Nimmo, head of investigations at Graphika Ben Wallace, United Kingdom’s defence secretary Kate Jones, director of Oxford University’s diplomatic studies programme. Credits: Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes Edited and produced by Chris Scott Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris

This episode explores a battle between truth and lies that’s threatening democracies around the world. It looks at how information is used as a weapon, not just by hostile foreign states, seeking to divide and weaken rival nations, but also by domestic politicians and other actors.Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes speaks to the author of a book on the history of disinformation, Professor Thomas Rid, who talks about fake news during the Cold War and warns about the risk of political violence today when people can no longer agree on facts.It’s a warning that played out on the streets of Washington DC in January when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building, spurred on by a false belief that Joe Biden had stolen his way to victory in the 2020 presidential election.Deborah also visits one of the UK’s best-known fighters of suspected Russian and Chinese fake news, who battles online trolls from his remote cottage in Scotland. And if you think that sounds strange, remember, in the grey zone, the frontline is everywhere!Interviews:Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Active Measures – the secret history of disinformation and political warfareLinas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Lithuania until December 2020Keir Giles, author of a handbook on Russian information warfare for NATO, senior consulting fellow at Chatham HouseDaniel Jones, founder and president of Advance DemocracyBen Nimmo, head of investigations at GraphikaBen Wallace, United Kingdom’s defence secretaryKate Jones, director of Oxford University’s diplomatic studies programme.Credits:Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes Edited and produced by Chris ScottProduction support from Sophia McBride and Victoria SeabrookAdditional voices provided by Cayetano DelgadoThe head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris

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Truth vs Lies | Grey Zone Ep 2

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