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#869: Max Levchin, PayPal and Affirm — The Path from The Soviet Union to Building Multi-Billion Dollar Companies (Plus: Real-World Socialism vs. Capitalism)

The Tim Ferriss Show

Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. Newsweek calls him "the world's best human guinea pig," and The New York Times calls him "a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk." In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc.), digging deep to find the tools, tactics, and tricks that listeners can use.

Max Levchin (<a href="https://x.com/mlevchin" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@mlevchin</a>) is a serial entrepreneur and investor in 100+ startups. He's the founder and CEO of <a href="https://www.affirm.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Affirm</a>, the payment network powering consumer purchases and merchant growth. An original PayPal co-founder, Max served as CTO until its 2002 acquisition by eBay.This episode is brought to you by:<ul><li><a href="http://prolonlife.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ProLon</a>: science-backed Fasting Mimicking Diet that helps activate cellular renewal through fasting, while still eating nourishing meals: <a href="http://prolonlife.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ProlonLife.com/Tim</a></li><li><a href="https://www.monarchmoney.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monarch </a>track, budget, plan, and do more with your money: <a href="https://www.monarchmoney.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monarch.com/Tim</a> </li><li><a href="https://shopify.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shopify</a> global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: <a href="https://shopify.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shopify.com/tim</a></li></ul>*For show notes and past guests on <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a>, please visit <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/podcast</a>.For deals from sponsors of <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a>, please visit <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/podcast-sponsors</a>Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at <a href="https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/friday</a>.For transcripts of episodes, go to <a href="https://tim.blog/transcripts" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/transcripts</a>.Discover Tim’s books: <a href="https://tim.blog/books" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/books</a>.Follow Tim:Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/tferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/tferriss</a> Instagram: <a href="https://instagram.com/timferriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">instagram.com/timferriss</a>YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">youtube.com/timferriss</a>Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">facebook.com/timferriss</a> LinkedIn: <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/timferriss</a>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

Max Levchin (<a href="https://x.com/mlevchin" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@mlevchin</a>) is a serial entrepreneur and investor in 100+ startups. He's the founder and CEO of <a href="https://www.affirm.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Affirm</a>, the payment network powering consumer purchases and merchant growth. An original PayPal co-founder, Max served as CTO until its 2002 acquisition by eBay.This episode is brought to you by:<ul><li><a href="http://prolonlife.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ProLon</a>: science-backed Fasting Mimicking Diet that helps activate cellular renewal through fasting, while still eating nourishing meals: <a href="http://prolonlife.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ProlonLife.com/Tim</a></li><li><a href="https://www.monarchmoney.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monarch </a>track, budget, plan, and do more with your money: <a href="https://www.monarchmoney.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Monarch.com/Tim</a> </li><li><a href="https://shopify.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shopify</a> global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business: <a href="https://shopify.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Shopify.com/tim</a></li></ul>Timestamps:<ul><li>[00:00:00] Start.</li><li>[00:02:50] The Ronin line that rewired how Max makes every decision.</li><li>[00:06:09] Paprika-style brain-computer interfaces.</li><li>[00:09:09] PayPal's founders lived inside a Neal Stephenson novel.</li><li>[00:19:21] Transformation via Neuromancer and Snow Crash.</li><li>[00:23:40] The book that found Max his wife.</li><li>[00:29:24] The real secret to a great marriage.</li><li>[00:38:29] What's worth tracking, and what's not.</li><li>[00:44:13] A scrawny kid, a clarinet, and a Kyiv velodrome.</li><li>[00:46:55] What going all-out on a bike actually gives you.</li><li>[00:51:02] The mantra by which Max rides.</li><li>[00:53:02] A Soviet kid's fear of socialism.</li><li>[01:02:48] Making a profit without destroying society.</li><li>[01:04:31] What is Affirm, and why did every banker say it would fail?</li><li>[01:20:18] Why the best mathematicians eschew the lending industry.</li><li>[01:23:50] Does agentic commerce break Affirm, or supercharge it?</li><li>[01:28:01] A PhD-level financial advisor in everyone's pocket.</li><li>[01:29:58] How close are we to buying anything through one AI chat?</li><li>[01:36:32] Improving your coffee: cheap, intermediate, and Bugatti options.</li><li>[01:44:33] The books every first-time founder should actually read.</li><li>[01:48:08] Claude Shannon, Ed Thorp, and the joy of playful genius.</li><li>[01:51:00] Why physical books still beat every digital reading experience.</li><li>[01:51:44] Parting thoughts.</li></ul>*For show notes and past guests on <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a>, please visit <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/podcast</a>.For deals from sponsors of <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a>, please visit <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/podcast-sponsors</a>Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at <a href="https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/friday</a>.For transcripts of episodes, go to <a href="https://tim.blog/transcripts" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/transcripts</a>.Discover Tim’s books: <a href="https://tim.blog/books" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/books</a>.Follow Tim:Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/tferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/tferriss</a> Instagram: <a href="https://instagram.com/timferriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">instagram.com/timferriss</a>YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">youtube.com/timferriss</a>Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">facebook.com/timferriss</a> LinkedIn: <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/timferriss</a>See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

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#869: Max Levchin, PayPal and Affirm — The Path from The Soviet Union to Building Multi-Billion Dollar Companies (Plus: Real-World Socialism vs. Capitalism)

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