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#588: A.J. Jacobs — How to Be Less Furious and More Curious

The Tim Ferriss Show

Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. Newsweek calls him "the world's best human guinea pig," and The New York Times calls him "a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk." In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc.), digging deep to find the tools, tactics, and tricks that listeners can use.

A.J. Jacobs — How to Be Less Furious and More Curious | Brought to you by <a href="http://linkedin.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn Jobs</a> recruitment platform with 770M+ users, <a href="http://helixsleep.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Helix Sleep</a> premium mattresses, and <a href="http://headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a> easy-to-use app with guided meditations. More on all three below.A.J. Jacobs (<a href="https://twitter.com/ajjacobs" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@ajjacobs</a>) is a bestselling author, journalist, and human guinea pig. He has written four New York Times bestsellers, including <a href="https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743291484/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Year of Living Biblically</a> (for which he followed all the rules of the Bible as literally as possible) and <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Thanks-Thousand-Gratitude-Journey-Books/dp/1501119923/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Thanks a Thousand</a> (for which he went around the world and thanked every person who had even the smallest role in making his morning cup of coffee possible). He has given <a href="https://www.ted.com/speakers/a_j_jacobs" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">four TED talks</a> with a combined 10M+ views. He contributes to NPR and The New York Times and wrote the article “My Outsourced Life,” which was featured in <a href="https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The 4-Hour Workweek</a>. He was once the answer to one down in The New York Times crossword puzzle. You can find my 2016 interview with A.J. at <a href="http://tim.blog/aj" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/aj</a>. His new book is <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Puzzler-Baffling-Puzzles-Crosswords-Jigsaws/dp/0593136713/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Puzzler: One Man’s Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life</a>.Please enjoy!This episode is brought to you by <a href="https://linkedin.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn Jobs</a>. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, <a href="https://linkedin.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn Jobs</a> can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, <a href="https://linkedin.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn Jobs</a> can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. <a href="https://linkedin.com/Tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim</a>.*This episode is also brought to you by <a href="http://helixsleep.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Helix Sleep</a>! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With <a href="http://helixsleep.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Helix</a>, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—<a href="http://helixsleep.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">only two minutes to complete</a>—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at <a href="http://helixsleep.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HelixSleep.com/Tim</a>.*This episode is also brought to you by <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a>! Headspace is <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations</a> in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a> can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute SOS meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a> has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a> even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.Go to <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace.com/Tim</a> for a FREE one-month trial with access to <a href="https://www.headspace.com/tim" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Headspace</a>’s full library of meditations for every situation.*For show notes and past guests on <a href="http://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a>, please visit <a href="https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/podcast</a>.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at <a href="https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/friday</a>.For transcripts of episodes, go to <a href="http://tim.blog/transcripts" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/transcripts</a>.Discover Tim’s books: <a href="http://tim.blog/books" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tim.blog/books</a>.Follow Tim:Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/tferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/tferriss</a> Instagram: <a href="https://instagram.com/timferriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">instagram.com/timferriss</a>YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">youtube.com/timferriss</a>Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">facebook.com/timferriss</a> LinkedIn: <a href="http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/timferriss</a>Past guests on <a href="http://tim.blog/podcast" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Tim Ferriss Show</a> include <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jerry Seinfeld</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hugh Jackman</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Jane Goodall</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LeBron James</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kevin Hart</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Doris Kearns Goodwin</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jamie Foxx</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Matthew McConaughey</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Esther Perel</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Elizabeth Gilbert</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Terry Crews</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sia</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Yuval Noah Harari</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Malcolm Gladwell</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Madeleine Albright</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Cheryl Strayed</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jim Collins</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mary Karr,</a> <a href="https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Maria Popova</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sam Harris</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Phelps</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Bob Iger</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Edward Norton</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Arnold Schwarzenegger</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Strauss</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ken Burns</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Maria Sharapova</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Marc Andreessen</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil Gaiman</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neil de Grasse Tyson</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jocko Willink</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Daniel Ek</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kelly Slater</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Peter Attia</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Seth Godin</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Howard Marks</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Brené Brown</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Eric Schmidt</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Lewis</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joe Gebbia</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Pollan</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Jordan Peterson</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Vince Vaughn</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Brian Koppelman</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ramit Sethi</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dax Shepard</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tony Robbins</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jim Dethmer</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dan Harris</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ray Dalio</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Naval Ravikant</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Vitalik Buterin</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Elizabeth Lesser</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Amanda Palmer</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Katie Haun</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sir Richard Branson</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Chuck Palahniuk</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Arianna Huffington</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Reid Hoffman</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Bill Burr</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Whitney Cummings</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Rick Rubin</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Dr. Vivek Murthy</a>, <a href="https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Darren Aronofsky</a>, and many more.See Privacy Policy at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy</a> and California Privacy Notice at <a href="https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info</a>.

Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M+ users, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and Headspace easy-to-use app with guided meditations.A.J. Jacobs (@ajjacobs) is a bestselling author, journalist, and human guinea pig. He has written four New York Times bestsellers, including The Year of Living Biblically (for which he followed all the rules of the Bible as literally as possible) and Thanks a Thousand (for which he went around the world and thanked every person who had even the smallest role in making his morning cup of coffee possible). He has given four TED talks with a combined 10M+ views. He contributes to NPR and The New York Times and wrote the article “My Outsourced Life,” which was featured in The 4-Hour Workweek. He was once the answer to one down in The New York Times crossword puzzle. You can find my 2016 interview with A.J. at tim.blog/aj. His new book is The Puzzler: One Man’s Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life.Please enjoy!This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 770 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.*This episode is also brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the #1 overall mattress of 2020 by GQ magazine, Wired, Apartment Therapy, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering up to 200 dollars off all mattress orders plus two free pillows at HelixSleep.com/Tim.*This episode is also brought to you by Headspace! Headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app. Whatever the situation, Headspace can help you feel better. Overwhelmed? Headspace has a 3-minute SOS meditation for you. Need some help falling asleep? Headspace has wind-down sessions their members swear by. And for parents, Headspace even has morning meditations you can do with your kids. Headspace’s approach to mindfulness can reduce stress, improve sleep, boost focus, and increase your overall sense of well-being.Go to Headspace.com/Tim for a FREE one-month trial with access to Headspace’s full library of meditations for every situation.*Why have A.J.’s kids lately deigned to show him a modicum of respect? [06:20]For most of his books, A.J. has a number of friends read the draft and offer suggestions for edits — what to cut and what to keep. Why was this usually sound strategy a bust for The Puzzler? [07:15]Why did A.J. abandon his next planned book midway and pivot to writing The Puzzler? [08:54]Is A.J. more of a George Plimpton or a Nellie Bly? [11:18]Why puzzles are worthwhile and not, as I once believed, frivolous time-wasters, and what happened when A.J. discovered he was a clue in the world-famous New York Times‘ crossword puzzle. [14:42]How does one compete in the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championship? For that matter, how does someone who doesn’t really even like jigsaw puzzles wind up representing their whole country in one? What did A.J. and his hastily assembled Team USA learn about jigsaw diplomacy and strategy when they unwittingly became participants in this annual event? [17:25]What would “the Ironman triathlon for nerds” look like? A.J. reckons it would be something like an MIT puzzlehunt. [23:25]“Don’t get furious. Get curious.” Every problem or disagreement is just a puzzle in search of a solution. [24:08]A.J.’s writing process is strong on structure and outlining, but he likes to allow room for surprises. One of these surprises while penning The Puzzler: a decades-unsolved CIA puzzle sculpture called Kryptos. [28:41]On puzzle trolls, fabulous prizes, and what you can win if you solve one of A.J.’s designated puzzles in The Puzzler. [32:38]What makes a good puzzler (and why does A.J. consider himself a better puzzle solver than puzzle creator)? As an aside: A.J. shares the origin of the phrase “Think outside the box.” [33:50]Transferable ways we can apply our puzzle-solving skills to other areas, with examples from a preteen Gauss, British crosswords, tormenting jigsaw puzzles, and reverse-thought riddles. [38:39]What puzzles does A.J. consider to give the most bang for their buck? It all depends on what you’re hoping to retain from the act of doing them, but Japanese puzzle boxes take things to a whole new level. [51:04]The shadow side of puzzles that drive people mad: the Monty Hall problem, the Sleeping Beauty problem, and a puzzle A.J. commissioned that can’t be solved within the lifespan of the universe. [54:41]If researching and writing Thanks a Thousand imparted A.J. with a lifelong appreciation for gratitude, what residual takeaways from writing The Puzzler does A.J. predict will remain with him for years to come? [1:00:26]In what puzzle-oriented subculture would A.J. feel most at home? [1:03:08]Obsessed with puzzles? Beware the perils of apophenia. [1:05:16]According to A.J., the hardest corn maze in the world is run by a sadist in Vermont. What has this sadist learned about human nature during the time he’s spent observing people trying to escape from this maze? [1:07:40]On puzzle creation epicenters, Garry Kasparov, and how chess puzzles differ from chess games. [1:10:10]How do puzzles pertain to the meaning of life? [1:15:06]Parting thoughts. [1:17:34]*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissPast guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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#588: A.J. Jacobs — How to Be Less Furious and More Curious

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