Wes Bos & Scott Tolinski - Full Stack JavaScript Web Developers

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From React To SvelteKit

Syntax - Tasty Web Development Treats

Full Stack Developers Wes Bos and Scott Tolinski dive deep into web development topics, explaining how they work and talking about their own experiences. They cover from JavaScript frameworks like React, to the latest advancements in CSS to simplifying web tooling.

<p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="7" data-line-end="8">In this episode of Syntax, Scott talks with Wes about moving Level Up Tutorials from React to SvelteKit — why he did it, how, benefits, things to watch out for, and more!</p> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="9" data-line-end="10"><a id= "Prismic__Sponsor_9" name="Prismic__Sponsor_9"></a>Prismic - Sponsor</h2> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="10" data-line-end="11"> Prismic is a Headless CMS that makes it easy to build website pages as a set of components. Break pages into sections of components using React, Vue, or whatever you like. Make corresponding Slices in Prismic. Start building pages dynamically in minutes. Get started at <a href= "https://prismic.io/syntax">prismic.io/syntax</a>.</p> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="12" data-line-end="13"> <a id="Sentry__Sponsor_12" name="Sentry__Sponsor_12"></a>Sentry - Sponsor</h2> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="13" data-line-end="14">If you want to know what’s happening with your code, track errors and monitor performance with Sentry. Sentry’s Application Monitoring platform helps developers see performance issues, fix errors faster, and optimize their code health. Cut your time on error resolution from hours to minutes. It works with any language and integrates with dozens of other services. Syntax listeners new to Sentry can get two months for free by visiting <a href= "https://sentry.io/">Sentry.io</a> and using the coupon code TASTYTREAT during sign up.</p> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="15" data-line-end="16"> <a id="Cloudinary__Sponsor_15" name= "Cloudinary__Sponsor_15"></a>Cloudinary - Sponsor</h2> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="16" data-line-end="17"> <a href= "https://cloudinary.com/?utm_source=Syntax.fm&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_content=Cloudinary_Syntax_podcast"> Cloudinary</a> is the best way to manage images and videos in the cloud. Edit and transform for any use case, from performance to personalization, using Cloudinary’s APIs, SDKs, widgets, and integrations.</p> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="18" data-line-end="19"> <a id="Show_Notes_18" name="Show_Notes_18"></a>Show Notes</h2> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="19" data-line-end="20"> 07:28 - Thoughts</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="20" data-line-end="27"> Apples to oranges, so unfortunately, no super legit ability to compare. <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="21" data-line-end="27"> SvelteKit isn’t analogous with a custom React setup that uses CSR <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="22" data-line-end="23"> SSR is usually going to be faster - we can ship less JS</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="23" data-line-end="26"> Some big things changed beyond React → SvelteKit <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="24" data-line-end="25"> <a href= "https://www.apollographql.com/">Apollo</a> → <a href= "https://github.com/kiedtl/gfetch">GFetch</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="25" data-line-end="26"> <a href="https://plyr.io/">Plyr</a> → <a href= "https://vimejs.com/">Vime</a></li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="26" data-line-end="27"> HLS starts grabbing chunks immediately, so it’s hard to get accurate load time and transfer.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="27" data-line-end="28"> Whole conversion took a couple of months.</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="28" data-line-end="30"> Hardest part was making UI choices and changes, straight up converting components one by one wasn’t actually that tough</li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="30" data-line-end="31"> 16:14 - Converting React components to Svelte</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="31" data-line-end="32"> useState becomes just a straight-up variable</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="32" data-line-end="33"> Graphql calls were hooks now just imported generated functions</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="33" data-line-end="34"> Remove extranous fragments</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="34" data-line-end="35"> Convert {things && } to {#if thing}{/if}</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="35" data-line-end="37"> <code><component hello={hello} /></code> becomes <code><component {hello} /></code></li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="37" data-line-end="38"> 24:06 - Spark joys</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="38" data-line-end="40"> State <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="39" data-line-end="40"> Our checkout flow became way more transparent, way easier with Svelte stores</li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="40" data-line-end="42"> Render flow <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="41" data-line-end="42"> Was never something we needed to really think about. Didn’t think about memoizing, or worrying about too many renders down the line, just never needed to</li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="42" data-line-end="44"> Overall developer experience <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="43" data-line-end="44"> It’s honestly a joy to work in and I don’t want to go back</li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="44" data-line-end="49"> Making a library <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="45" data-line-end="46"> Package dir, new SvelteKit project, <code>svelte-kit package</code></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="46" data-line-end="47">I made svelte-toy - <a href= "https://github.com/leveluptuts/svelte-toy">https://github.com/leveluptuts/svelte-toy</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="47" data-line-end="48"> svelte-element-query - <a href= "https://github.com/leveluptuts/Svelte-Element-Query">https://github.com/leveluptuts/Svelte-Element-Query</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="48" data-line-end="49"> svelte-simple-datatable fork</li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="49" data-line-end="50"> Creating a sitemap was extremely easy, because of server-side routes. file.returnformat.ts ie <code>sitemap.xml.ts</code></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="50" data-line-end="51"> CSS without a css-in-js library for scoping is a dream. CSS props are now 100% via CSS variables using the <a href= "https://svelte.dev/docs#style_props">https://svelte.dev/docs#style_props</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="51" data-line-end="53"> Animations are all done with Svelte’s internal animations lib</li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="53" data-line-end="54"> 32:45 - Hosting</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="54" data-line-end="55"> adapter-node</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="55" data-line-end="56"> Hosted on <a href="http://render.com/">render.com</a> as a straight-up node process $7/m for more than enough RAM and CPU,</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="56" data-line-end="58"> Lots of other options for static, Vercel, workers whatever, I like having just a straight-up node app you can host anywhere</li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="58" data-line-end="59"> 35:50 - Things to do</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="59" data-line-end="62"> Admin tools <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="60" data-line-end="62"> <a href="https://pancake-charts.surge.sh/">Pancake</a> lib for charts</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="62" data-line-end="63"> 37:00 - Challenges</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="63" data-line-end="67"> ESM is not always smooth sailin <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="64" data-line-end="67"> Import has from ‘lodash/has’ didn’t working in dev, but import has from ‘lodash/has.js’ didn’t work in prod. <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="65" data-line-end="66"> Solution was to use lodash.has as the dependency</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="66" data-line-end="67"> Apollo included all React as a dep unless you import from @core</li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="67" data-line-end="68"> TS is great, but there was once where I wanted to define the entire props ts object for a spread prop, but was not possible</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="68" data-line-end="70"> Drag animations</li> </ul> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="70" data-line-end="71"> Cloudinary</p> <p class="has-line-data" data-line-start="72" data-line-end="73"> 42:46 - Wes’ questions</p> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="73" data-line-end="74"> What about the ecosystem?</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="74" data-line-end="75"> What about forms + DOM data?</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="75" data-line-end="76"> Serverless functions?</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="76" data-line-end="78"> Do you always bind to state? Or just access directly?</li> </ul> <pre data-initialized="true" data-gclp-id="3"> <code class="has-line-data" data-line-start="79" data-line-end= "87">formData = writable({   title: "yo" })  {$formData.title}  <input bind:value={formData.title} /> </code> </pre> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="88" data-line-end="89"> Is it stable?</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="89" data-line-end="91"> <a href="https://deno.land/">Deno</a> - <a href= "https://crewdevio.mod.land/projects/Snel?ref=madewithsvelte.com">Snel</a></li> </ul> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="91" data-line-end="92"> <a id="Links_91" name="Links_91"></a>Links</h2> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="92" data-line-end="93"> <a href= "https://leveluptutorials.com/">https://leveluptutorials.com/</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="93" data-line-end="95"> <a href="https://vitejs.dev/">https://vitejs.dev/</a></li> </ul> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="95" data-line-end="96"> <a id="_SIIIIICK__PIIIICKS__95" name= "_SIIIIICK__PIIIICKS__95"></a>××× SIIIIICK ××× PIIIICKS ×××</h2> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="96" data-line-end="97"> Scott: <a href= "https://www.theskepticsguide.org/podcasts/episode-844">The Skeptics Guide To The Universe Podcast</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="97" data-line-end="99"> Wes: <a href="https://amzn.to/39iGlWl">Pressure Washer Nozzle</a></li> </ul> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="99" data-line-end="100"> <a id="Shameless_Plugs_99" name="Shameless_Plugs_99"></a>Shameless Plugs</h2> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="100" data-line-end= "101">Scott: <a href= "https://www.leveluptutorials.com/pro">Web Components 101</a> - Sign up for the year and save 25%!</li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="101" data-line-end= "103">Wes: <a href="https://wesbos.com/courses/">All Courses</a> - Use the coupon code ‘Syntax’ for $10 off!</li> </ul> <h2 class="code-line" data-line-start="103" data-line-end="104"> <a id="Tweet_us_your_tasty_treats_103" name= "Tweet_us_your_tasty_treats_103"></a>Tweet us your tasty treats!</h2> <ul> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="104" data-line-end= "105"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/stolinski/">Scott’s Instagram</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="105" data-line-end= "106"><a href= "https://www.instagram.com/LevelUpTutorials/">LevelUpTutorials Instagram</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="106" data-line-end= "107"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/wesbos/">Wes’ Instagram</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="107" data-line-end= "108"><a href="https://twitter.com/wesbos">Wes’ Twitter</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="108" data-line-end= "109"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/wesbos.developer">Wes’ Facebook</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="109" data-line-end= "110"><a href="https://twitter.com/stolinski">Scott’s Twitter</a></li> <li class="has-line-data" data-line-start="110" data-line-end= "111">Make sure to include <a href= "https://twitter.com/SyntaxFM">@SyntaxFM</a> in your tweets</li> </ul>

In this episode of Syntax, Scott talks with Wes about moving Level Up Tutorials from React to SvelteKit — why he did it, how, benefits, things to watch out for, and more!
 Prismic - Sponsor Prismic is a Headless CMS that makes it easy to build website pages as a set of components. Break pages into sections of components using React, Vue, or whatever you like. Make corresponding Slices in Prismic. Start building pages dynamically in minutes. Get started at prismic.io/syntax.
 Sentry - Sponsor If you want to know what’s happening with your code, track errors and monitor performance with Sentry. Sentry’s Application Monitoring platform helps developers see performance issues, fix errors faster, and optimize their code health. Cut your time on error resolution from hours to minutes. It works with any language and integrates with dozens of other services. Syntax listeners new to Sentry can get two months for free by visiting Sentry.io and using the coupon code TASTYTREAT during sign up.
 Cloudinary - Sponsor  Cloudinary is the best way to manage images and videos in the cloud. Edit and transform for any use case, from performance to personalization, using Cloudinary’s APIs, SDKs, widgets, and integrations.
 Show Notes 07:28 - Thoughts
  Apples to oranges, so unfortunately, no super legit ability to compare. SvelteKit isn’t analogous with a custom React setup that uses CSR  SSR is usually going to be faster - we can ship less JS
 Some big things changed beyond React → SvelteKit  Apollo → GFetch

 Plyr → Vime

 HLS starts grabbing chunks immediately, so it’s hard to get accurate load time and transfer.

 Whole conversion took a couple of months.
 Hardest part was making UI choices and changes, straight up converting components one by one wasn’t actually that tough
  16:14 - Converting React components to Svelte
  useState becomes just a straight-up variable
 Graphql calls were hooks now just imported generated functions
 Remove extranous fragments
 Convert {things && } to {#if thing}{/if}
  becomes 
  24:06 - Spark joys
  State  Our checkout flow became way more transparent, way easier with Svelte stores

 Render flow  Was never something we needed to really think about. Didn’t think about memoizing, or worrying about too many renders down the line, just never needed to

 Overall developer experience  It’s honestly a joy to work in and I don’t want to go back

 Making a library  Package dir, new SvelteKit project, svelte-kit package
 I made svelte-toy - https://github.com/leveluptuts/svelte-toy

 svelte-element-query - https://github.com/leveluptuts/Svelte-Element-Query

 svelte-simple-datatable fork

 Creating a sitemap was extremely easy, because of server-side routes. file.returnformat.ts ie sitemap.xml.ts
 CSS without a css-in-js library for scoping is a dream. CSS props are now 100% via CSS variables using the https://svelte.dev/docs#style_props

 Animations are all done with Svelte’s internal animations lib
  32:45 - Hosting
  adapter-node
 Hosted on render.com as a straight-up node process $7/m for more than enough RAM and CPU,
 Lots of other options for static, Vercel, workers whatever, I like having just a straight-up node app you can host anywhere
  35:50 - Things to do
  Admin tools  Pancake lib for charts

  37:00 - Challenges
  ESM is not always smooth sailin  Import has from ‘lodash/has’ didn’t working in dev, but import has from ‘lodash/has.js’ didn’t work in prod. Solution was to use lodash.has as the dependency
 Apollo included all React as a dep unless you import from @core

 TS is great, but there was once where I wanted to define the entire props ts object for a spread prop, but was not possible
 Drag animations
  Cloudinary
 42:46 - Wes’ questions
  What about the ecosystem?
 What about forms + DOM data?
 Serverless functions?
 Do you always bind to state? Or just access directly?
  formData = writable({  title: "yo" }) {$formData.title}    Is it stable?
 Deno - Snel

  Links  https://leveluptutorials.com/

 https://vitejs.dev/

  ××× SIIIIICK ××× PIIIICKS ×××  Scott: The Skeptics Guide To The Universe Podcast

 Wes: Pressure Washer Nozzle

  Shameless Plugs Scott: Web Components 101 - Sign up for the year and save 25%!
 Wes: All Courses - Use the coupon code ‘Syntax’ for $10 off!
  Tweet us your tasty treats! Scott’s Instagram
 LevelUpTutorials Instagram
 Wes’ Instagram
 Wes’ Twitter
 Wes’ Facebook
 Scott’s Twitter
 Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

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